Been thinking about this for a bit. Since the Nats were last week and I'm already missing them I have been thinking of a couple things.

There was a questioner (survey) going around the Nats about ideas for the Nationals Board. One of the questions was how long would you like the Nats to last.

My first answer was forever, but I knew that wouldn't work. Then I though a full week would be nice too.

Then..... The last couple days I have been thinking what about if there were 2 National Truckin's a year? A summer Nationals in July like now and a Winter Nationals. Winter would be best if it were held in the South so as to be a bit warmer for everyone.

I realize it would be a lot of work and it may be difficult for club/councils, etc. to do a full blown Nats, but maybe a downsized one for the Winter Nationals. Maybe like less van classes or trophies in the show and shine, only a couple bands, or vanners jamming, etc.

What do you guys think?

PS: Nats Board comments welcome as well!!!!!

Two Nats a year would be cool but it's easy to spend other peoples money.

If it does come to fruition (big word for the day), the first Nats should be moved to May or June, then the second Nats either Sept or October.

That my 2%

Hmmm interesting idea.. I would go for that especially going south in winter

Interesting...would that take the shine off the original nats? I have always referred to the c of c as the winter nationals-the vibe is the same, just no vans...On the other hand I couold spend Christmas break at Sunshine Key without much of a struggle!

never been to a Cof C, but I think like Howard.

Wow ! 2 Natz a year ? That may cut in to my vanning schedule a bit

There are already eVANts in almost every month except December....

Some planning is right as to not step on, but rather, expand one of those eVANt's...

Also Winter Natz WILL limit the northerners from coming down, as salt is murder on vans, already skating around on ice over the mountain chains running east and west through PA for example... I just drove the North/South routes this year, and had snow as south as Charlotte, and freezing weather into Florida itself ......

The vision of Dreamweaver showing up with tire chains and snow tires all around comes to mind, as Guy is not afraid to drive it anywhere at anytime !!!

My cousin has purchased an old 40 acre campground outside New Orleans, and that may be a possible venue. It will already come with 20 or so Louisiana vans that show up 3 times a year there already

It may be a fly , rent and drive eVANt, but hey, I like that better than hotel parties anyways......

Sorry for the length of this, but I wanted all my thoughts out there while I was still sober

You sober....Naw! JK lol
B.W.

GSVR is set for October 2-4 in Cherokee North Carolina.

Come on down! Good run before those snow flakes start appearing up North..
Check out the calendar for details

Personally, I hope the Nats continues on for at least another 20 years. I know that's asking alot.
As for doing it more than once a year, I think not.
The Nats is a special event meant to bring all vans & vanners together for a great celebration. Keeping it to once a year would preserve this.
Just my 2%. What do I know anyways,Brad

PS, Doc's place in New Orleans could be a great place to have another van evant.

Thats not true DOC, we have a run in Wisconsin third weekend in Sept hosted by Bar City Vans in LaCrosse.

I also think a winter Nats would take away from Council of Councils, I consider that my winter Nats.

Also I think you would take numbers away by holding two Nats

Once upon a time there were 5 "national" type events...

Van Fair North, South, East, and West, along with the Annual Truck-In. Too much promotion killed all but one...I think Lone Star still hosts VFS. East turned in to Butler, North turned into the Great Northern Boogie...

Maryland Van Council still holds their Eastern Van Nationals, but I'm not sure if that was ever a "Nationals" type evant.

I also believe that there is a West Coast Nationals.

Ooooopppppsssss I was drunk, I meant December

Yea September, December they are close

hmmmmmm like Doc said: there is an event or 2 or 3 almost every month. If you have 2 Nats then other events may suffer.
Natz in July & C of C in Feb to bring everyone together works great.
& like alot of people who live in the snow belts - we don't drive our van in the winter.

I think there is no doupt that most Vanners agree that the Council of Councils is nothing more to most to them as a Winter Nationals. I too express the same feeling.
As in regards to having it in the lower 48, it is up to the Councils to put forward a bid. Southern California is putting in a bit for 2011 at the same Hotel at the same room price as before from what I have heard and I hope they do and win the bid. We also have the Vegas Hotel who really what us back, and of course there is Flordia. But......What happened to Texas? They have not put in a bid in a long time and no C of C since 1990. Maybe they are way over due. Just a thought.

OK, so it sounds like it was a BAD idea. Oh, well back to thinking about custom ideas

I was intrigued by the idea Ken... I hope to make "Winter Nationals" in WI next year!

Look me up Corey!

I have enough trouble just booking in what we have now--and I go to the Nats and Council so I can see my far away loved Vanners every now and again. If there are 2 -- it'll be like the Olympics--which one do we go to, what year, who do we park with, haven't seen them in like 7 years because of the schedule--nope, don't like the idea of that!! hee hee I'm happy with the Nats in July and C of C in Feb.--

Of course... WI is a hotbed of Vanners I have to meet, and close to those of you in the midwest! Too bad WI has winter in Feb... but still a great opportunity! Just won't be any camping!

I envy y'all that have vanning schedules that would prevent you attending another nats!

No idea is a bad one if it leads to a pleasant conversation about vanning! And Corey...start working on flights to Chicago the Wed of Council. I will be driving a van load up that evening!

Why not ???? Dutch spent the first night in his van at the Detroit CoC in Feb and Wisconsin will probably be warmer than that !

I like it the way it is.

Well, If I ever hit the Mega Millions, I will have a van run every weekend that there isn't another run somewhere else

Will you move the location around a little but Superbeast so I dont have to drive to Jersey every other weekend

Sure, just get me the right numbers

I am not really keen on 2 Nationals.
We all know the rules for the bidding for the hosting of The Nationals was set up when there where 100's of clubs and allot of van councils.
Moving the locations helped to keep the event fresh.
Now with a smaller core group of vanners working on the nationals what would be the harm in picking some key locationas in the hot beds of the vanning comunity and switching off the locations from year to year.
The mid west one year,the mid atalntic one year,back to the upper mid west,then back to the new england area,
I have herd that vanner have complained about returning to a venue.
Bigger car runs like the Street rod nationals have been held in the same place for years.
I just kinda think if we could map out a plan it might be easier for the Nats board and the hosting clubs to consentrate on provding a better event and give vanners who live farther out like the West coast guys a more concrete way to plan to make an event.

......Wookee

No way your going to get my van out in a snowstorm!
I think if you tried to have a second NATS it would take away from the (summer) National Van Run. As you know we all save for and plan on going to the NATS all year.

I think it would make the most sense to just have the Nationals in New Hampshire every year.........

but I guess thats not ever ganna work, but I do love the fact that 2 Nationals in a row (PA & NY)are less than 8 hours away from my house.....I missed the last 2 cause they were way too far.....

I do wonder where the most Vanners are located, Its gatta be New England,right?

O no, Kev is on the pipe again!
Come on man OH. and IL. are to far? dammit boy!
OK Washington state might be to far for us right coasters.
But give us a break bro your giving us a bad name!

..........[buff][buff]....[cough][cough]

Nope wrong Midwest owns that trophy

I hear a little 3 hour sydrome comming out here.
There are some of us that really like a long distance van run adventure and some that don't/can't.

If you knew well in advance,(some people do need more than a year)where we where going.We might be able to strenthen our numbers through the gates.

Back in the day the part of the reason rule of not announcing the location untill the Nationals event was done to help keep vanners from sitting out an event to wait for an event closer to them.

Not to stir up stuff/piont fingers. this might have happened this year.There was quite a few new england vanners missing this year that where in attendance the last time the "Nationals" where in Pa.There was also allot of vanners from the Ohio mid west area that did not show up at this event.
On the good side there was a healthy numbers from both areas who did show up.......

........Wookee

Three hours don't scare a Georgia vanner. I've driven that far to have lunch.
As for weather, if I can't drive it, what's the point?:


Seriously though, I think two nationals would split the numbers and stress a lot of budgets.

One winter storm could ruin the whole travel plans of anyone up north, making it not very profitable

Wookie I have heard the Nats board say something very similar to this, Howard or Wacko any comments?

when i was a kid i used to go vanning in snowstorms , uphill both ways

Wookee, I never heard that perspective about folks sitting out an event like that... dang! That's just plain sad.

Now, it happens that I'm one of the unfortunate folks Wookee mentioned who needs a really long lead time... my company makes us apply for vacations for the upcoming year in September!

It sure makes my planning more miserable. I can always get a day or two off on short notice, but the week long time off slots have to be set up *really* early. It's especially rough around holidays like the 4th of July, Thanksgiving or Labor Day. Then we even experience competition for vacation slots - only so many of us can be off work at one time.

I think this type of issue is apt to become more common as time rolls on and companies "grow" smaller.

I'm solidly in favor of the early announcements.

BTW, thanks for all your efforts!

Clear skies!

We have talked about that. There are a few venues and area that would be great for a rotation. I do think it would be hard on the hosts, having to do one evry 4 years or so. it would also restrict new groups from out of the area from bidding, if they so desired. Personally, the Nats and C of C have given me so many opportunities to see stuff that I would never have seen otherwise that I like it the way it is.

Too far? Not if you really want to go!

Same locations would mean same hosts due to the location of the property. If you have a bad nats one year that means it is possible to always have a bad Nats everytime that place comes around. That would equal low numbers that year.

No evants in December? Hey, what about 3 trails Christmas party.....sure I know its a one day evant, but whoever has attended knows it usually lasts all weekend!!! You know first you go to Donnie's basement (with a side visit to Cabelas and Kansas Speedway) then you can't leave without visiting 3 Trails Garage in nearby Mosby, MO

Same locations woul not nessaraly mean the same host.
New York is put on this year by different host in a repeat location.The same with courtland.
It would be the Nats boards job to let a host club know if they did do a bad job.Accept or decline that group's bid.
unfortunatly bad things can stick in a vanner mind longer than the good work that has been done.
If we would run into a situation where there where not a group to host a Nationals it would also make it easier for the Board to come up with a back up plan/volenteers to help run the event.

Howard how many new groups are stepping up to bid?
This would not be a rule that is cast in stone but more of a guide line.....

........Wookee

I kinda think if the Nats were held in the same place every year, a lot of people would not attend. With today's economy and the rising costs of everything and the upkeep costs of vans and such, I think more vanners would choose to visit their local runs as apposed to driving half way across the country to go to the same place each year.

I know I will travel a long distance to an eVANt to see vanners I may not see elsewhere in a particular year, but a lot of vanners would not.

Unfortunatly these are probably the same vanners that would not attend a show/event if the public is involved.We are are some times our own worst enemies.......
Not the same place every year Ken.If there is a four year roation.It would help to keep things changing.For those of us that will make the trip no matter where its at.
The kool thing about the mid west is there is more venues to choose from.It seems like every county has a fair grounds.
I might take a little while for vanners to find a place that they really like.
The fact of the matter is we are running out of orginized hosts to put on an event of this scale.
I hope I am wrong here.
Some body correct me if I am.

......Wookee

I like the idea of moving the Nats around as it has been. It give everyone a chance every couple years to attend if they do not like to drive a long distance.

The only request I would like to make is that there is one central location on the grounds for the vendors, games, bands, shows and hanging out in general so that you get a chance to meet and see everyone, play games, etc. without missing stuff etc. This will also bring extra attention to the vendors.

Nobody from the previous hosts is invloved with this years?

That is kind of nice that you have that many vanners in one general area to have two Nats with totally different hosts. In Illinois it was pretty much everybody from around that area. Wisconsin would never be able to host a Nats there (we could help but not put it on). And likewise Illinois Vanners would never be able to host a Nats in Wisconsin. To much planning involved, you need to have people there to do a lot of the planning.

Some of the former NY Nats hosts have individually volunteered to be members of VAN NY and help with the Nationals in 2010. So, some of the people are the same, and some are not.
In this region, things have been this way since way before MASVA did their Nats in '98, I mean a group of people coming together for the purpose of hosting an eVANt and making sure that all the bases are covered. It is rare now a days to find a single group with enough members to pull it off themselves, and it is a way that all Vanners in an area can be involved in their local Nationals. Performance and MoonLite are two of the largest groups I know of back east, and they knew that even with that, neither group could have done it alone.

I like the movement and different hosts the Nats offer us, I find it a joy to travel the country and see how others do this thing we love so much. However, if one Nationals is going to cost me 3 smaller eVANts, whether in time or cash, I will pick the 3 smaller eVANts. We are losing too many of our regular runs and I will support them before anyone.

Just my thoughts.

Just because the name of the host is different doesnt mean the actual hosts are different. My point in this you cant have a central place for National in the midwest and have different people host the Nats. It would be to hard with dealing with the work up to the Nationals. Example; Bands trophies, vendors, all licensing, working with the local city etc.

I think it would be great to have Wisconsin some day host a Nationals again but we would never be able to do it in Illinois, Indiana or Iowa.............

Unless our job only happened at the Nats. Meaning the Nats Board does all the prep work and we just do the grunt work. Either way I wouldnt like the fact that we dont have our indiviaul style put into it.

I agree Suzie.We really can't afford to loose any of the current local events we now have in place.

The thing I like best about attending a "Nationals" event is I get to see vans and meet vanners I do not see in my area.
I believe this is a common attraction for all of us who can make trip to a "National" event where ever it may go.

There has to be a way to have our cake and eat it tooo

.......Wookee

Lil Ed you are saying that if there was a location in the upper mid west and you knew where it was going to be your Cun or Council could not come up with enough members or bodys to help run a part of it?

.....Wookee

hee hee I thought he was saying that WI is no where near IL!
I'm going to have and check my atlas!!!

And Lil Ed--I am not understanding your meaning of--'Just because the name of the host is different doesn't mean the actual hosts are different.'huh? In our case--it is a different group with different people at the top and then volunteers, some have worked a Nationals before, some have not; but everyone signed up understands that it takes a VANNING community to raise a Nationals!

Another great thread...what is the deal? since the nats, several really interesting threads have popped up! as far as the question that wookie asked about future bids, things are in the works for bids in the future. With out letting any felines escape, there are rumors of bids from at least 4 groups coming up in the next few years. All of these groups are comprised of experienced host type folks, and 3 of the venues are new to hosting nats, although 1 hosts an annual event!

Ken, your right !!!!
The nats being held from Mon to friday should be the way its always been ????
Most people can only take vacation time in one week blocks
(mon to fri).

This also gives vanners from far away 2 days travel to the nats and 2 days travel from the nats !!!! and this can all be done within 1 weeks vacation !!!!!

The ways its been scheduled wednessday to sunday is really bizzare considering that many vanners come to this event from very far away. The way it is now, the event ends on sunday vanners have to cut into more vacation time leading into another week ????(if they can) to make it home ????????


If the host club wants to have a pre nats party starting the sat before...thats even better,if the host wants to have vanners there the sat and sunday after than that should be fine as well

sat--12noon early arrivels allowed in
sun--early arrivals allowed in,say till 2pm after 2 vans line up at the gate

MON---nats offically open
Tues--junkyard tours etc.
wed--show and shine,light show
thur--trophy awards
fri---more partying,

sat--long distance vanners leave if they choose
sun--everyone leaves by 2pm

Please nats bord...seriously consider changing the current schedule

Maby im wrong, but this seems to make the most sence

Really I had to go back to page 1 and re read this whole thread before I say something worth while. and To some it may not measure up. But , I think If the question was about how Long (in days) the National truck-in should be? Personally I do not think The event should be any longer than it is. I think we started it on Wednesday at Altamont at the 26th. An it was the first five day Nats. (correct me I might be wrong)I really don't think it should be any longer, and starting on Thursday is Just as good. Do not burn out the crown jewel of vanning by overdoing it. Remember the old show buisiness saying .. "always leave'em wanting more".
As for two Nationals, A winter and summer , For the same reasons I think I would have to say No.
However the Idea has come up about some National Truck-in event sites that are exceptional and to have them on a rotational basis. This idea is worth hashing out the details on. I have been to some nationals ( and I do not profess to be an authority like some who have been to almost every one, But I have been to enough to speak on this) that should not have been at the sites that they were. So iI would not be opposed to leaving this subject open for serious discussion and voted on in the near future.I don't think I care how far I have to go to a National Truck-in half the fun is the trip. BUT the quality of the event site means alot. Besides a great crew that is informed to what is going on, Easy access, clean facility, easy access to shopping for things needed and Electric and water are nice. Not much to ask for "THE" National truck-in, a great responsibility for the people wanting to host it.

PHOENIX,I SHARE YOUR THOUGHTS,GOOD CHOICE OF WORDS.

Leave it the way it is.

As a newer vanner (4nats) I'm only thinking about the future.
When I mention that the nats should be a one week event, its because scheduling vacation time in a one block (mon-fri) period of time
is much more acceptable to employers.

What do some of the newer vanners think ?

I've only been to 3 Nats ('05, '06, '09) and me personally am wiped out after 5 days, BUTT a week long Nats would be fine with me. I'd enjoy the Nats if it was 4 days, 5 days, or even a month!

Both ideas have some merit, and we will discuss each of them at the Nats board meeting in Feb. Keep those ideas flowing! Remember, though, that things change slowly over time...

Thats not what I said, I said we couldnt host a Nationals in another state. Lets use Nats08 for example, I am the southern most person in Wisconsin and I am still 5 hours away from that fairgrounds. The preperations that need to be done before you can have a Nats we wouldnt ba able to do and in my opinion that is the hardest part. Helping while at the Nats inst an issue. Its the work that has to be done before that is the hard part.

Therfore We (being Wisconsin) could never HOST a Nationals in another state.




When it comes to hosting a nats in the middle of Illinois it isnt close.




If Wisconsin held another Nationals it would pretty much be the same people doing this time as last time. With the exeption of the few that are new. I meant the faces that are involved wouldnt be any different. Obviously that is not the case for NY.

What about those people that cant take a week off, or can only get a couple of days off and need to use there weekend as additional time off. Thos people usually leave on Wednesday or Thursday, now they have missed basically the whole thing.

I like everything about the way Nats is now, and we shouldnt change any part of it.

As I have understood it for all these decades, the schedule for the Nats was laid out long, long ago and picked as the last 3 weeks in July because so many Vanner jobs had a summer shut-down around those weeks. Of course, this goes back to the early stages of our Vanning days and, yes, many of us have different jobs now, but as Vanners we stick with what we know. Change comes slowly for us usually!

I do not think that extra days will make a difference, we added Wednesday a few years ago, and I am still struggling to see/do everything I would like to at the Nats. And, even with opening the grounds early, for some reason I can't figure out totally, there is still a race to be the 'first'--in line, thru the unofficial/official gate, to get a spot, or whatever! My point is, I don't really see the pressure on the hosts being relieved any by a M-F Nats. And, in my opinion, when the eVANt is over, the hosts need a rest too--having Vanners still on the grounds does not afford that opportunity!

I am glad that we can have civil and intelligent discussion of this issue here. Great reading all!

Civil I can agree to but intelligent I dont think I can be part of

Ed,
The situation may be good for you and some others
but what about the future vanners and the majority of vanners ??.

And what about vanners that live far from the nats location
a 2 day head start (sat and sun)would help them out greatly
A 2 day drive home (the following sat and sun) will make a big difference also.

Maby more people would come to the nats because they would have more travel time and it could be done in a weeks vacation time.

A poll should be taken reguarding the nats schedule.....the problem is we cant count the future vanners in the poll cause there not with us yet !!!


In general we have to get out of the stone age.........Here is an example of the stone age mentality. Some people still say that panel hhrs and panel pt cruisers should not be allowed at the nats.........are these people kidding ?? and yes Im still hearing this kind of talk even at this past nats !!.......Panel hhrs and pt cruisers ARE modern panel vans. LOOK AT THEM and show me the difference.
Im glad they are treated as modern panel vans
(kudos to the board for making the right decision !!!)

I would even bet that some vanners at first didnt like the idea of vanning information being put up on the internet.
I wouldnt be surprised that the idea of strangers being able to gain knowledge of an event scared the hell out of some of you !!!!

If we keep using the past or present to make future decisions there wont be many people left to keep this going another 37 years !!!!!

WE MUST THINK ABOUT THE FUTURE and im hearing that the numbers are very slightly increasing,but some things must change to keep the numbers of new vanners rising !!!!

If the Nats were a week long and you could only make some of the days, then nothing is lost. This year the gates opened on the Saturday before for the unofficial warm up to the Nats. There were around 150 vans by Monday morning. We rolled in on Sunday and were able to set up and went out site seeing Monday and Tuesday. When the gates opened on Wednesday we were raring to go and do everything we could at the Nats. It was nice to be able to travel on the weekend (less work traffic) have a couple days to do Un-Nats-related stuff and still be able to enjoy the whole Nats.

The van show being on Friday has raised some concerns, but I think it too is a great idea. If it rains, you still have Saturday to do the show. Also, if you need to be home by Monday, you can roll out Saturday and not miss the show.

As far as the specific grounds (3, 4 or 5) I would have to vote against it. I know a lot of vanners and have talked to a lot of them about this idea. SOME OF THE RESPONSES I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND.

There are vanners that will not go back to certain areas (or grounds) more than once.

If any vanner decided they didn't like a particular grounds, they wouldn't go again.

If the hosts at a certain grounds didn't work out then they wouldn't go again. Even if the hosts change, not everyone would realize that.

If they have 3, 5, 6, 8 hour syndrome, and none or all of the grounds are farther than that, they will never be at a Nats again.

With today's economy and the prices of everything going up, most vanners will not travel as far as they once did, for any run.

Some vanners will also only do local runs because, they will not travel far for "the same old shit". Meaning, the Nats, as well as a lot of runs, are all the same.

Don't come down on me for saying any of this. These are not my feelings or opinions, it's just what I have heard.

If you are the forunate ones that can get a week off, why cant you take Wednesday thru Tuesday off and do your travel around the weekend as opposed to doing the travel on the weekends.



This is where the disscussion will turn from civil to not civil. But I have never seen or heard of a PT Cruiser Panel and that is all I am going to say about that

Many companies operate on a Wed to Wed pay week, might be easier to schedule vaca that way too! Get a whole paycheck sooner!!

Ken--I have heard all that stuff before too--what is up with that is also my question!

I feel for those with 3 hour syndrome and all that they miss in this world. Not only wonderful sights and places in this country, but all the VANNERS that they are missing out on knowing! And how much happier their VAN would be if it had some real highway miles on it--I know mine enjoyed her little trips earlier this season--even tho they were short for us--longer than the grocery getting stuff we do around here!

I will not comment on the HHR/PT stuff. Heard like 20+ years of what is a VAN already!

Civil or uncivil
Even a new guy like me can see that panel hhrs and panel pt's are modern panel vans I mean modern versions of the old old panel vans
Don't be stuck in the past !

What's hard to understand !!!!!!

I will explain again !!!!!

Most people can't take off a few vacation days one week and then take off some vacation days the following week.( Keep in mind the travel time that's needed after the sunday)


Most people have to take vacation in one block periods of time ( mon -fri)
This scedule also helps those that travel from far. This would give them 2 days before to get to the nats. And 2 days to get home from the nats.

What can't you understand about this basic logic !!!!

Just a reminder, we aren't here to discuss "what is a van"
that just stirs up too many emotions and people get mean.

the nats board has already decided on the panel HHR, its allowed, the PT cruiser isn't.

if you have issues about these vehicles, discuss them with your nats rep.

Anthony--relax--it's a discussion and Howard has said it will also be discussed in Feb amongst the Board members. Not everyone will always agree on things when it comes to Vanning, but we can discuss as tho we are around the campfire because everyone has the right to have their opinion sounded.

If you really feel this strongly, then put a proposal together and bring it up at the Council of Council meeting--these are the reasons we have C of C! If it is already a known issue and there is interest, it will get more attention at the meetings.

Sorry Dave
I thought I seen a paneld pt at this nats

The reason I brought it up is because I was trying to prove a point that some folks are so stuck in the past,
Which is dangrous to the survival of this sport!!

I truly believe that if the Nats were a week long, they wouldn't be much different than they are right now. As long as the Hosts keep the important stuff (van show, awards, awarded games, etc.) scheduled for Wednesday thru Saturday anyone wanting to attend longer can, and those who cannot will not miss out on anything.

Just because an eVANt is a week long, doesn't mean you have to attend for the entire week.

Anthony, to answer your question about the HHR and PT cruiser thing: The HHR Panel is allowed because it was marketed by GM as a PANEL. The PT cruiser panel was not built from the factory and never marketed as a true panel. The Nationals (as well as other eVANts) are open only to Vans and Panels. This all has been debated for many years and the Nats board made their final decision on that. I believe both versions would be allowed at nearly any east cost eVANt. Keep in mind tho, there are a lot of stubborn 'old school' vanners (no offense anyone) that still don't believe mini-vans and campers belong at a 'Vans Only' eVANt, and that will prolly NEVER change.

Hey Sue
Trust me I'm relaxed !!
Can't make it to the cofc
Questioneers were handed out at the nats and one of the questions were this very one that we are talking about now.

there are 2 camps on this anthony, the survival of the sport, and the purity of the sport.... and lets just say that there have been many heated debates here on the issue, and we don't get into it on the forums anymore. it has caused too many problems.
you want to debate it around a campfire, or via PM, that's fine.

as you saw yourself, you got a little animated on the topic, some people get VERY animated.

I saw a vehicle on the grounds myself that I had to discuss with a nats rep, and I would still like to discuss it more, but I'm not going to open that can of worms here.

Ken
I thought I've seen a paneled pt at the nats my mistake.

there were a few panel HHRs, but I don't think I saw any PTs anywhere.

My goodness
If you think this is animated
You should see the rest of my family talking politics and religion around the Christmass dinner table.
Now that's animated !!!
Hahahahahha

FYI, I am not taking anything Anthony says in a personal way, I feel he is just trying to get some answers and make his point, (which I can see but dont agree)

Just want to make sure I say that and thank you Anthony for saying what you say. I dont feel you are being animated or upset about anything.

This is the problem with the internet though you cant see how people are saying things and we are all taking it a different way.

So as far as I am concerned keep up the ideas, this will be hashed out when it is needed, by the appropiate people.

My issue isn't about hhrs or pts
I was just using that as a point
About some people bieng stuck in a time warp

And I'm sure people didn't like the idea at first, of vanning info being posted on websites

And I'm sure that poeple didn't like the idea at first of mini vans,camper vans

And if these people had their way where would we be now ?

My real concerne is the nats schedule
Wed to sunday for the nats is really silly

Here is another issue about holding the Natz mid week..Some people who can't get any holidays off would miss them altogether...at least on the weekend they have a chance to come for that at least....

It has been said here before, if you don't have a chance to make it to the CoC, talk it over with your councils rep and have the Council put the idea forward.


That is what the CoC is for. Council of Councils means what it says. The ideas can be presented then even in your absence.

Thats where I disagree with you Anthony, that will make it harder for me to go to Nats in the future. I dont want to take a full week off of work. That will kill my vaction time for local eVANts. Just my opinion

Thank you ED
We do need much more input from our newer vanners and
With guidence of the senier vanners this sport can really grow and grow not to the numbers of the past but become much larger than what it is now !!
I would love the nats to last another 37 years !!

Some how a national poll needs to be takin on this issue
I don't know how ??

There are " nats weekenders"
There are "nats fullweekers"

We need to find out
Which is the majority

We need to give the
" far away vanners"
And future vanners
travel time to and from the nats
Since the nats move from state to state

I take my vac to go Vannin

Spent 10 days in Pa and Loved every minute

But I now have three plus weeks of paid time off.
So it's really not a issue for me.
I would stay for a week at the NATS every year if I could.

Yea I get 3 weeks Vac also Charlie

I agree if you can the time off your going regardless, i just want to be able to see those who dont get the time off be able to go and if the schedule changed to have everything happen in the middle of the week, those people wont be able to go.

Good point there Lil Ed.

We did sorta do what your talking about Anthony, as our big day/night was Friday. Friday there were 2 bands ,blender party ,the luge the van show, the reason for Friday being the BIG night is for the long haulers...

I really have no opinion here as long as I can go vannin, I'm happy!!!

I forgot to turn in my survey is it too late

I will say it again I don't think you need to change it>

A couple things...No PT cruisers allowed, in any configuration...the panels are kits on a car...no dead equestrian beatings, but a clarification!

I have worked for 40 years, and never had a job that forced me to take only a full week off. In fact, I don't think I know more than a handful of folks that are in that boat.

As I said before, all this discussion os good, and we will continue at a later date!

My new job sucks no days off till you are there a year. Then 4 days a year, 2 in Feb, 1 in May, and 1 in August. Since my anniversary date is March I won't get the 2 Feb days so my 2nd year I will only get 2 days with only one before Nats so I can't make the 2010 Nats either

Oh Yeah! I haven't seen a Panel PT but then again I haven't seen a convertible HHR! OK OK I know its a bad joke! Just trying for a small bit of levity!

You go Phrog Lighten things up , Break out a bottle of wine

To paraphase Thomas Wolfe:
Perhaps this is our strange and haunting paradox (as vanners) -- that we are fixed and certain only when we are in movement.

Now a days if your lucky to have a vacation week its usually expected that its taken in a week long block of time ! ( Mon-fri)

The 2 days travel time to and from the nats I'm sure would help the long distance vanners as well !

It took me 2 days to get home from Last years nats in ill.
Which meant I got home tuesday
It was very diffucult for me to get that extra 2 days off !!
I was lucky to get off the extra 2 days

drive faster on sunday? ;)

Haha I wish I could
My 305 barely pushes 65 mph

Actually I think,I may be wrong but the mid week start time(wednesday or thursday) was to help vanners who have to travel long distances get to the event for the first day.

Later on down the road vanners/hosts started comming up with the "Pre Warm Up Party".Of coarse this was as the events venue allowed.There has been pre warm up parties that have started at another site then moved to the Nationals site it's self.

That's the really good thng about Vanners.We have a way of making the "Best" out of any situation......

.......Wookee

OK been reading through the thread & want to chatter now
1st - I have a PT Cruiser & a PT Cruiser is not a van, it is a car. I don't care if it's been paneled, it's still a car.
2nd - I've been vannin since 77 & going to Natz since 88. I love it being in a different state each year (just like the C of C). Get to see more of our wonderful country.
3rd - Length of Natz - Wed thru Sunday. I know all can't always take off on that time period but it still gives them time to maybe take off Friday & get there for the weekend.
4th - Everyone wants to be there longer but you gotta think of the host club/council. They have to plan for a year or longer & then actually work for a week. It is rewarding hosting a Natz but me being part of the hosts for 3 of them, I was alot more exhusted at the end then just attending. & yes, please leave as quickly as possible on Sunday as the host club has to finish up after all gone.


Dee Jaye

I agree!

Me Too

The 5 days spread out from Mon - fri would allow the host club and vanners to clear out sat afternoon and the host club can be home sunday,relaxing before getting back to work on monday !!


Since the nats always move around from state to state,how many local vanners actually show up thursday/friday ??

Compare that number to the amount of extra/new vanners that would show up for a full week if the nats were held
from monday to friday allowing 2 days before and 2 days after for travel time.

I know many of you are use to doing things a certian way But I also hear many of you saying that you need new blood to be involved to keep this going.

I am new blood, giving a good suggestion
and its being shot down only because its not the old way ???

Think about the new people/future !!!

The mon to fri schedule would allow 2 days travel to and from the nats
and this schdule will allow vanners to take thier vacation week in a one week slot of time as opposed to how it is now, needing to cut into a second weeks vacation.

Expecting people to cut into a second weeks vacation time is too much to ask for !!!

Most LOCAL Vanners are involved with hosting the Nats. Either way I would be curious how many people showed up between Thursday - Saturday as opposed to the beggining of the week.





So far Ive only heard that you have to take one week vacation blocks at a time. I am curious how many people have to take one week blocks as opposed to taking whatever days you want off. My vacation is in hours and I can take them any way I want (I get 7hrs per pay perod of vacation, thats almost one day every 2 weeks).

I can take my vacation 1 day at a time, or as many days as I want. Everyone I know has a similar setup as mine or Eds, either by the hour or the day. I like the Nats Schedule the way it is. Not because that is the way it has always been, but for the fact it is conveniant (sp).
We have driven 12 hours or more in a day to make it to the Nats and also to make it home.

Took me 19 hrs straight to make ill last year (very dangerous)
Took me 2 days to make it home from ill last year, got home tues and back to work.

I'd love to take vacation days 1 at a time, no longer possible, not possible for many newbies

I would guess that the vanners who can schedule vacation time in days or weeks whenever they choose are seinor employees at their jobs ??

Its not going to be possible for me to make the nats, next time nats are more than 1 days travel time from home.

Its too bad that the regular longdistance and newer vanners are not speaking up on this

I'm very sure that many people must take vac in 1 week blocks
I spoken with a few vanners offline and they agree with the mon to fri scedule .....why they don't chime in now is cause there worried about making an ass of themselves
Me .......I'm good at it !!!! lol hahah

put in for vacation for next year NOW

Next year won't be a problem for myself
What about the would be long distance vanners that can't cut in to a second week for vac time ??

I consider myself one of those regular long distance Vanners--I like it the way it is too. I think if it were officially longer/more disenchantment may set in. We left the grounds in Summit Station this year by 9 am and we were home in IN by 8:30 pm on a slow ride. We knew it would be a long day in the VAN on Sunday, but we didn't want to leave on Saturday either.

I have worked in the restaurant biz and some office stuff for long, long time--never had a problem taking a day here and two days there for vacation. Did have some issues along the way with a whole week at a time at a couple of places, but they were happy to allow me whatever couple or one here and there I wanted.

As far as scheduling--several VANNERs have played the fly-to-rent a VAN nearby, (trains are longer and buses longest!). Yeah, we all know it isn't the same as having your VAN, but at least you are there! Or find some passengers that you trust with your VAN and get some help with the driving. One drive, one sleep.

Suzie
Summit station is easily within one days travel from where you live !!!
I'm talking about having consideration for vanners from the west coast,way down south,the far east etc, depending where the nats are held the 2 days travel time would make a big difference to those vanners !

And the mon to fri scedule is still 5 days this is no longer than the way it is now
Mon to fri is just a more pratical schedule for the majority

All employees at our business, can take their Vacation one day at a time, doesn't matter how much seniority they have. Also every other business in the area operates the same way. Like Suzie said some times it is difficult to schedule a whole week. (New job, low seniority, not enough employees etc.etc.)
You keep saying new and future Vanners, well I think more new and future Vanners fall into the later category.

I like the idea of the Mon-Fri schedule Yooo Anthony, This year we pretty much had that schedule except for the awards on Sat evening... however on the time off I believe people having to take week blocks off at a time anymore are the minority now a days, the union shops are dwindling that had shut downs that "made" you take week blocks at a time. I know that I can take my days anyway I would like. and its been that way in my last job and now my new job.

Phroggy I hope you have feelers out for a new job, we Need to see ya next year! LOL

If the schedule is never going to change
At least have the show and shine/light show on thurs and awards on fri so long distance vanners can leave on sat without missing anything

That sounds like a good idea that could work.